Refuting my hard line Neo-Con Friend Tim from Indiana

Please allow me to preface this blog by stating that it is in DIRECT reference to some comments that my friend Tim from Indiana (he is a Neo-Con...but I love him) had on one of my MySpace blogs (prior to this blog). I will see if I can attach his response and will paste my original blog seperately from here. It was titled "What is happening to me!" Tim is very firm on his belief that we should be in Iraq and that the war is justified...here is the original blog:

Tim…this is my THIRD attempt to respond to your response to my last post regarding my political leanings. I've tried before and spent HOURS (literally) in creating a response that is both intelligent and civil.

First off…as you know…I love you as a brother. However, some of the things you have written need to be addressed in "laundry list" format. Just because it is TRULY my hope that you will POSSIBLY reconsider some of your statements and/or beliefs. But I know that is asking/expecting a lot of ANYONE…so hopefully this will be at the very least thought provoking for you and any others who may happen to review this blog.

I will do more research on our founding fathers before I respond to your interesting dialogue on what our founding fathers intended. That will be for a different day and a different blog. This blog is primarily to debate your perception of and belief in our current war in Iraq.

You started off by saying that Saddam needed to be "dealt with". According to who? Because he is/was an "evil dictator"? So now it is OUR job…the United States of America's job…to go and round up every evil dictator in the world? Why start with Saddam? Why END with Saddam. I've compiled a short list of "evil dictators" throughout the world and I'd like to know who we need to go Cowboy on next, China? Pakistan (who both have WMD's)!

Lets start with the most obvious!

Our good friend Kim Jong Il. He has ALSO ignored UN warning and sanctions and has openly despised the USofA. Did I mention that we KNOW he has weapons of mass destruction and that he has been firing missles off in testing (ICBM's) dangerously close to Japan btw. Lets go kick his ass first Tim! But don't forget that most of his nation is starving and without electricity at night.
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/UN_Weighs_Punitive_Measures_In_Response_To_North_Korean_Missile_Tests_999.html
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/missile/td-2.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm

I would be remiss if I didn't mention Kim Jong Il's excellent record *sarcasm* of free press, civil liberties, political rights/freedoms and overall repression of his people with over 100,000 "dissidents" in political prison.

Now…let's look at our friends in Africa! There is an entire CONTINENT that is dealing with corruption and evil dictators around every turn!

Let's go to Omar Al-Bashir from Sudan. I'm sure you have heard of Sudan…as in "the lost boys of Sudan". We had a couple working at the local Meijer store a few years back. He is the dictator of a country that with his blessing has CONSISTENTLY provided safe harbor and sanctuary for many KNOWN terrorists. This would include the Carlos the Jackal (whom he betrayed and turned over to the French). Here is a knee slapper…because he is such a dubious character, he oftentimes provides sanctuary for terrorists only to eventually turn them in for "favors" and money. This includes his offer the United States in 1996 (NINETEEN NINETY SIX) for a guy you may have heard of…Osama bin Laden. Another hilarious point…you keep hearing the liberals whining about Darfur? Well that is in Western Sudan. Currently since the conflict began in 1993, the U.N. has estimated close to ½ million people have died of violence and disease.

I think we should stick to Africa for a minute…the dictators there are SO very interesting.

Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe is a hell of a character. I mean, with deferring international humanitarian aid to his people and blocking the people's access to this aid (basically starving his own people)…you might want to send HIM a Christmas card! You'll laugh at this. He holds "elections" but limits the oppositions ability to advertise and campaign and does not allow media outlets that "sympathize" with his opposition to continue to stay in business. Even so, his last political opponent STILL got over 40% of the vote. I guess I would vote against him too if inflation were over 500% and unemployment soaring around 70%! Did I mention that in ONE YEAR (2002) Amnesty International reported that good ol' Bobby killed or tortured over 700,000 people?! Why are'nt we going after THIS evil dictator Tim? And he has been in power for how long? You guessed it...over 25 years!
http://thereport.amnesty.org/document/14

There is King Mswati III of Swaziland. In Swaziland he has ULTIMATE power and authority. He cannot be investigated and he can overrule any and all laws. He's a swell fella when you consider that he spent over $40million on a private jet. That's more than twice the healthcare budget of the nation (which btw has the HIGHEST HIV/AIDS rate in the WORLD) at over 30% infected. Glad he has his priorities!

Here is one that had me rolling Tim…I mean I actually PEED a little when doing research on our next "winner". It's our old friend…King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia…C'mon down…you're the next contestant for our evil dictators club. But wait…we're FRIENDS with this guy?! I mean…out of all of the terrorists involved in the plane hijackings of 9/11…(19 in all) FIFTEEN were from where? You guessed it, Saudi Arabia. However, due to the "oil tit" as you call it, we have ALIGNED ourselves with and allowed this guy to do intolerant things like: It is illegal for Saudi citizens to practice ANY religion other than Islam; school textbooks are vehemently ANTI-American, ANTI-Christian and ANTI-Semitic; and it is common to be FLOGGED for being with someone of the opposite sex unless they are a family member in public (this includes taxi's etc); They are one of the FEW nations in the world that do not hold elections…however, the King has said that the nation would "soon" hold parliamentary elections…but it hasn't happened…yet. *don't hold your breath either*. So tell me Tim…why don't we cowboy up and kick THEIR asses?! BTW…they own the LARGEST oil reserve in the world.

Hopefully I've made my point on EVIL DICTATORS. Trust me…there are many more out there (like in Eastern Europe and some of the Soviet States). Now, lets look at another phenomenon. It's FASCINATING and goes along with a solid philosophy as to why we should stay out of the affairs of foreign countries.

Look up a term called the "blowback effect" which is a term commonly used by both the FBI and CIA. Here are a couple of links for you to check out:

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/lar_related/2002/may1wbct-txt.html
http://www.defraudingamerica.com/legal_index_right.html
http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=607
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HDN/is_1999_June_2/ai_54800604
http://www.educatorstostopthewar.org/PermanentWarScript.pdf
http://www.mathaba.net/info/27a.htm

You need to know your history with regards to America's involvement in not only the Middle East, but also how we have meddled in the internal affairs and policies of countries which eventually "blows back" and bites us in our own ass. For example:

After WWII America had HUGE influence in the affairs of the Iranian Shah. In 1953, because of their concerns with Anti-Western (read Anti-American) influence in the opposition of the Shah (Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh) and how the Tudeh Party (which was later banned as a party in Iran) may be leaning towards the Soviet power (or at the very least not denying any Soviet leanings) and all of the oil resources could possibly be going away from US/British control and towards the Soviets. We decided to help in "removing" Dr. Mossadegh DIRECTLY with our own own agencies and bureaus.

25 years later (almost to the day) there is civil unrest and dissatisfaction with the direction the country has taken. Iran was becoming Westernized, less adherent to the strict codes and Islamic laws which it had been following for MILLENIA and was seen by many Islamic loyalist as being a "pawn" to the Evil Empire in the West (the United States).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_PahlaviOil_nationalization_and_the_1953_coup

This is what the Blowback Effect is Tim. But let's dig deeper. After Iran became an Islamic State in 1979, they were no longer our "pawn". So we need an ally in the Middle East to keep Iran in check. So let's look at who we provided money and arms to. Oh…that was Saddam Hussein. The Iraq/Iran war that took place from 1980-1988. Funny how it started less than one year after the hostage crisis in Iran. But note that this wasn't an issue of "East vs. West". Even the Soviets supported Saddam during this time. The reason? Everyone was afraid that the Islamic Revolutionary movement would move into Iraq as well and the secular regime that Saddam oversaw would topple to the ultra-conservative (if not radical) Islamic movement. So note the dates we started helping. September of 1980. Almost 25 years later what happened? You guessed it…we are once again battling the very person/region that WE had supported with arms, money, training and covert operations. See a pattern here Tim?

But wait…it gets even better...this is the "RonCo" of blowback effects. It slices, it dices...it even makes Julienne Fries!

Lets look at Osama bin Laden. This will have you rolling in laughter. It's a real gut-buster…trust me. What's REALLY funny is once again…the dates. In 1979, Afghanistan is "invaded" by the Soviet Union. Yep, our old pals the Russians wanted to support the communist party in power and prevent the overthrow of that government by the Mujahideen (a pro-Islam/Anti-Marxist insurgency). After almost 10 years and BILLIONS of dollars spent (read waste/lost) Russia pulled out completely in 1989. Less than 2 years later the Soviet Union and a huge communist superpower had completely collapsed. Ever heard the term "learn from the mistakes of others" and "if we don't learn from the mistakes of our past, we are doomed to repeat them"? So we start providing arms and money to Bin Laden in 1980 and over 20 years later (not quite 25 this time) he's orchestrating the flying of planes into the twin towers. This is no longer even remotely funny Tim.

I think you are smart enough (God I hope so) to see a pattern here. When we involve ourselves in the policies of and try influencing the governments of other nations, it has consistently and catastrophically come back to haunt us. BLOWBACK EFFECT

One more thing…BAY OF PIGS and other attempts to interfere with Cuba's government. That was the benevolent USofA trying to overthrow good ol' Castro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuban_Project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_invasion

Moving down the laundry list. You mentioned oil and how we should tap our oil reserves in Alaska. The problem with this is that oil (ours and that of anywhere else in the world) is a FINITE commodity. It isn't endless and it WILL eventually dry up. My question to you is this: If Brazil (which is damn near a 3rd world country) can create the infrastructure for and support ethanol based fuel primarily made from sugar cane. Isn't it interesting that .54 on the dollar is TAXED for importation of this Brazilian fuel to the U.S.? Is this looking out for the best interest of our people and our economy and our need to get off the teet of the dangerous and unstable Middle East oil conglomerates? Or (hold on…here comes a zinger) could this be just another way for big time corporations (read Oil Companies/Barons) to continue to have there way with us through the influence of power in the government?

Like the old song…"Things that make you go hmmm". You will hear the argument that this is being done to encourage our OWN internal ethanol production. However, the government is NOT doing what it needs to do to support the INFRASTRUCTURE to allow for the expansion and use of ethanol fuels domestic or foreign. Sweden for examples has laws in place REQUIRING an alternative to fossil fuels (i.e. ethanol).

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/10/news/ethanol.php
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817

I do agree with you on nuclear power as well as the fact regarding building an oil refinery in 30 years. What a joke. Some of the oil barons have homes that cost more than it would to build a new refinery! However it must be noted that there are currently around 145 refineries currently in the U.S. with Texas being by far the state with the most refineries. It should also be noted that only two are doing over ½ million barrels a day.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/refineries.htm

Tim…next you mention that Saddam repeatedly fired upon our "patrols". Is this the same "OUR" that was continuously dropping bombs on THEIR "targets of opportunity" and other targets of perceived "military value" in THEIR country for over ten years? Simple thing to consider. Put YOURSELF in the same situation. We have…oh…I dunno, let's say Chinese "patrols" in the United States. While the Chinese are "patrolling" our land, they happen to be bombing Nebraska. So you come upon a patrol of these altruistic and benevolent "patrols" in Indiana…would YOU take a shot? Here it comes…your gonna love this one! Call me CRAZY! Something tells me you wouldn't be inviting them in for tea and scones…but I could be wrong?!?

Next…you mentioned how there may be (admittedly little) evidence of Saddam supporting Al-Quaida and/or other terror groups. Would this be anything similar to the U.S. government being in DEEP negotiations with the mafia and assorted members of crime families and possible efforts at an assassination attempt of our pal to the south Castro? Or, let's just remove the middle man and use "support" our OWN government agencies as terrorist groups!

http://multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/issues/1982/04/review-bitterfruit.html

Check out the CIA's "Family Jewels"…it has some great stuff regarding assassination attempts in detail (more than one) and our overall benevolence. http://www.foia.cia.gov/search.asp

Now Tim…here is where I get "somewhat" personal. Hopefully, I will communicate my thoughts clearly enough for you to see WHY I took this particular part of your response personally and I must preface this by saying that I mean this with all due respect.

You would rather "fight them now than have your son fight them". THAT my friend is bullshit. When it was YOUR turn to fight (i.e. join the military) you chose NOT to do so. When MY time came around I chose to volunteer for my country. I will respectfully acknowledge that we were both at different points in our lives and there are reasons you chose not to join and reasons why I chose to volunteer. But the fact of the matter is that when it WAS my turn…I was there. Now it is ME…not you…who has a son/stepson who has chosen to serve his country as well. And it is MY stepson (not your son) who is fighting this war, has HIS balls on the line and is as we speak, literally on a boat to Northern Iraq. It's easy to be a hawk when you have never served and when you never were in the military. Traditionally, most former military officers and enlisted personnel (contrary to popular myth and portrayal) are loathe to put men and women in harms way (from my experience) and are more than aware of the horrors and unacceptable cost of war. So it's "in my opinion (IMO) of your statement" easy to say let's fight them now so my son doesn't have to fight them.

Don't make that statement Tim, unless you are willing to leave your job, your family and your way of life…TODAY and go join the military…TODAY and get in a boat and go to Iraq…TODYA...otherwise YOU aren't fighting shit though you may support the men and women who are fighting (which I DO support our military volunteers as well). You are watching (and encouraging) OTHERS do the fighting for you. That is the definition of a "chickenhawk"! Chicken when it's their turn, but a hawk when it's someone elses turn to do the fighting! Please don't take that personally, I know you are not "chicken" or a coward in any way, so if that is what you are interpreting, let me be forthright in stating that this is NOT my intent or in any way what I think of you and/or your character. It just so happens that one of those "others" (as in when OTHER people do the fighting) is my stepson. Though I'm not a huge fan of Nick and his attitude...I still raised him like he was my own son, supported him and provided for him and was his parent if not his father. And lastly I'm exceptionally proud of him and his accomplishments in the Marine Corps. He has EARNED the title of Marine.

You also mentioned that they cannot break us militarily. But when we spend unnecessary BILLIONS on this war, they can (and eventually will) break us financially (again, read above for what happened to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan). You also said that we would break them like we broke Russia. I'm not convinced that WE had as much to do with "breaking" Russia as RUSSIA did in breaking themselves by spreading themselves too thin and fighting a fruitless and ultimately un-winnable war and forcing unnecessary financial hardships on their nation while supporting their war.

Interesting guy to listen to is Ron Paul. Republican candidate for president and fomer Libertarian nominee for president. Check out some of his speeches regarding some of the very things we have discussed. What I like about him is that as a member of the GOP, he has an actual SHOT at the presidency. Whereas if he were still running as an independent he would have far less of a chance at election due to the electoral college and how the votes would play out (it would be killed by the majority two party system "by state" in power before it had a chance to get off the ground) NOT in the popular vote, but through the electoral college vote.

I have included another link with direct definition of "chicken hawk" and an EXCELLENT analogy as to why we would invade Iraq instead of staying in Afghanistan where we belonged! Summed up best by a simple statement. Invading Iraq is similar to if after December 7th, 1941 we attacked Korea and not Japan. Why you ask? Cause Their ASIAN TOO! Same thing isn't it?! Enjoy.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Sm2weLS5gJ4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=G7d_e9lrcZ8

These are some things to stick on your fork and chew! Lol. My Pickle always has been and always will be for you only! Lmao. I seriously hope I at least made you think a little and I hope you reviewed the response from Richard in response to my previous blog which I am responding to here. NOW you can see why I was so pissed since I have typed this TWICE before! To those of you who read this (I hope it's EVERYONE in the world) I would appreciate your feedback.

Again, it's IMPOSSIBLE to get someone to suddenly change their core beliefs and value structure and see things "your way" (see what is happening in Iraq LMAOROF) but I do seriously hope that this blog will at the very least provoke some desire and thought into looking deeper into what our country (which represents us in the world) does which if it was being done to US, we would rebel, fight back and protest as well. Your "non-personal or attacking" comments would be greatly appreciated!

Peace, Love and Unicorns, Rainbows and Teddy Bears for all!